well senotor MEI! what he did was set up new restrictions to have more qualified people get the political offices and he was one of the most efficient generals and always had his soldiers faith in him. by the way senator zoey how do you write so much? also i agree with emma the ends do justify the means. and no matter how sulla left the state of the country it is nothing compared to the trainwreck marius left behind him. and pompey stole glory in the wars. he helped sulla then took all of the glory. he's young and naive and needs to grow up before i would consider him.
I beleive my group, Pompey, made alot of strong arguments. We covered our person well and talked about his charecter, acheavments and advantages. My favorite argument of ours was how in the consul Pompey fixed all the laws that Sulla put forth that messed up rome and made the empire a more difficult place to live. THose laws took away some of the most important elements of rome such as the tribunes, and the censor.
I was surprised that the other groups did not attak us as much as i expected. There was mostly just a weak argument about how much time pompey spends in the country side with his wife. I thought someone was going to bring up the topic on how we disrupted the "natural order" and tradition. I had a big argument against it and ended up not having to use it.
I liked this debat, i still wish we had more time in open rebuttle, but i think we gave it as much time as possible.
ALSO... pompey did not steal all the glory. He rightfully deserved all the glory because he was a military genius and was able to accomplish alot in small periods of time.
And sulla, you messed up in your military actions so Pompey had to step in and fix the mess you made. Pompey seems to be fixing alot of your mistakes...
i totally agree with you mei. things had really kicked off and people were firing argument after argument, when suddenly, BAM! class was over!! i recommend doing this on a tuesday or friday next year rachel.
on the whole, i loved the whole exercise, including the roman senator roleplay, complete with blatant hypocrisy and twisting of the truth. Kudos to all the people who used the same piece of evidence in two completely different arguments for different people. every team did a great job in both defense and offense.
i'm also extremely sad that nobody got assasinated. i really thought liam would get there, and im sorry he didnt (no offense to you liam, its nothing personal.)
Strongest my team: that Marius was a popular and brilliant leader both as a politician and a general.
Best argument didn't: We made every single point available!!
Compelling argument: the other teams used the text to attack us a lot.
What did we do well: I think we kept the atmosphere of the room fairly respectful and noone got murdered! I also thought it was funny that noone talked about the legal issues except for Lysander (but it was Mos Maiorum). being a consul for seven times was NOT legal at all according to the twelve tables, but I guess no one wanted to bring that up, because their guys violated the same kind of laws themselves...
I must say I agree with Lysander, neither of the other teams seemed to remember marius' massacre. This would have really brought us down lower close to the level of Sulla. As for a good point from our team, at least to me we were able to bring up the point that a leader is more than the number of people he sends to jail, or the amount of land we acquire, although these are both very important. Team marius brought up very good points of how the leader must become important to the people not only by fear, but by generosity. Otherwise, I believe pombey was the 2nd best choice, although their team tended to repeat themselves quite often.
UN backs Alassane Ouattara as Ivory Coast president
Alassane Ouattara has made his headquarters at a hotel in Abidjan, guarded by the UN
Continue reading the main story
Related stories
Test case for Africa
Two presidents, one crisis
Q&A: Ivory Coast election crisis
The UN Security Council has issued a statement saying that Ivory Coast opposition candidate Alassane Ouattara won the disputed presidential election.
The statement came after three days of debate at the UN, in which Russia expressed concern that the UN was exceeding its mandate.
Incumbent President Laurent Gbagbo is defying international pressure and continuing to cling to power.
His stance led West African regional bloc Ecowas to suspend Ivory Coast.
In its statement, the 15-nation Security Council said it condemned "in the strongest terms any effort to subvert the popular will of the people" in Ivory Coast.
"In view of Ecowas' recognition of Alassane Ouattara as president-elect and representative of the freely expressed voice of the Ivorian people as proclaimed by the Independent Electoral Commission, members of the Security Council call on all stakeholders to respect the outcome of the election," it added.
The BBC's Barbara Plett at the UN in New York says it was perhaps a concession to Moscow that the council spelled out that it was following the lead of Ecowas.
Continue reading the main story
Rival Presidents
Laurent Gbagbo (left)
Age: 65
Southerner, Christian
Former history teacher, president since 2000
Declared president by Constitutional Council
Backed by security forces
Alassane Ouattara (right)
Age: 68
Northerner, Muslim
Economist and former prime minister
Declared winner by Election Commission
Backed by former rebels, UN, African leaders and the West
African press calls on Gbagbo to go
Country profile: Ivory Coast
According to diplomats, Russia had argued that supporting one candidate in the disputed poll exceeded the UN's mandate.
However, US representative Susan Rice said the UN mission in Ivory Coast was empowered to certify the election under a peace treaty signed after the country's 2002 civil war.
UN envoy to Ivory Coast Choi Young-jin told the council that Mr Ouattara's victory was "irrefutable".
Diplomats said other members of the council had strongly urged Russia to drop its opposition, especially the three African states.
The Security Council's endorsement of Mr Ouattara now leaves Mr Gbagbo with almost no supporters in the outside world, our correspondent says.
But Abdon Bayeto from Mr Gbagbo's Ivorian Popular Front (PFI) told the BBC's Network Africa programme that Mr Gbagbo would not cede power.
He argued that Mr Gbagbo had been declared the winner by Ivory Coast's supreme court, which had overturned the result announced by the electoral commission because of rigging in the north, where Mr Ouattara is popular.
"African leaders are being manipulated by the European community and turned into puppets," Mr Bayeto said.
In Abidjan, both men have named their own Cabinets, heightening tension in the country.
Mr Ouattara is operating from a luxury hotel, guarded by UN peacekeepers.
Earlier, Liberia's President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf warned its former rebel fighters not to get involved in the Ivory Coast crisis.
Liberian fighters were involved in Ivory Coast's 2002 civil war, which left the country divided, while Charles Taylor launched his Liberian rebellion from Ivory Coast in 1989, sparking 14 years of bloodshed.
There are fears that the Ivory Cost stand-off could lead to a renewal of the war, as the New Forces rebels, who still control the north, back Mr Ouattara, while the security forces back Mr Gbagbo.
The UN has some 8,000 peacekeepers in Ivory Coast.
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what he did was set up new restrictions to have more qualified people get the political offices and he was one of the most efficient generals and always had his soldiers faith in him. by the way senator zoey how do you write so much? also i agree with emma the ends do justify the means. and no matter how sulla left the state of the country it is nothing compared to the trainwreck marius left behind him. and pompey stole glory in the wars. he helped sulla then took all of the glory. he's young and naive and needs to grow up before i would consider him.
