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CelinaFernandezAyala · Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Posts: 37

If I remember correctly, we're supposed to post our notes from the movie.

I was in group #3: Power and How It's Divided.

-Big picture: main division between European-Americans & Native Americans

European-American power
-More people, more powerful weaponry
-Using understanding of history as a means of manipulation
-They decreed the (physical and nonphysical) boundaries and the punishment for crossing them
-Created institutions especially for conversion
-Religion- forced conversion, and Natives trying to convert/convince their fellow Natives to convert
-Recognition: you are only worth listening to until you have a Christian name.
-Resources such as medication
-Twisting words of treaties/denying/twisting the past for their benefit
-They had the power to decree what was acceptable and what wasn't- the idea of the "betterment of the race"

Native American power
-Chiefs. Reps a group of people, makes decisions for the group
-Alliances. All the chiefs coming together for the meeting about the land. Although they were all to be treated equally and had the same status, there still were elements of the majority ruling over the minority.
-Negotiation in treaties, although that would only go so far
-The power to assemble, power of fear. Make US feel nervous that there were so many Native Americans coming together
-Staying true to selves, in some cases. Looks like many knew English and the Native language, and Eastman (who was REALLY played up in the film) managed to retain aspects of his heritage, even being so close to European-American culture.
-Those who were assimilated were taken more seriously by the US than those who weren't.

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gaubin · Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 17

I was group 1:
Which was ideas of Identity.

The conflict between being a Native American and being a Christian. Charles is taken away from his tribe at a young age and converted to Christianity against his will because his father is now a Christian. Charles grows up and is educated by whites. He has a hard time when he goes to the reservation with his former tribe. He is called a white and maybe even worse than one because he took a Christian name, converted to Christianity and worked for whites. But he still really wants to fit in and be a Native American which he is but they do not view him as one. He is stuck between the world of the Native Americans and the whites. I think this problem of being stuck between two worlds really hurt a lot of people because they were not accepted wholly into either of the cultures. When they went back to their original cultures and tribes they were often rejected and thought of as an outsider.

• the land and their hunting grounds were really a part of them and their identity. when they lost their lands they lost a huge part of their culture and their identity

•Their long hair was also a sign of identity and pride. Whites cut it off to try and break their identity and pride

•Sitting Bull was the last bit of hope that the whites would be resisted. When he surrenders it makes them realize that the way of life they had before will never really come again. They clung to any symbol of hope or resistance and that last symbol of that was Sitting Bull. When he surrendered he lost a lot of respect but then gained it back slowly.

•Seeing Sitting Bull take money from reporters for his picture was another blow to the community because they saw how really powerless their chief was now comapared to the power he had before. He was really reduced.

MaxRoll · Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 12

i didnt take notes in quite the same format as gigi and celina but i did takes some on what power i saw.

i felt like a big piece of the film was about knowlege and power. the indians originally gave up their land because the colonists came to them fully understanding their situation and what they wanted and abused that knowledge to gain the upper hand on them. the native americas knew less about the colonists and what they wanted and didnt have any way of finding out so they were left at dissadvantage.

the colonists worked to maintain this position throughtout the film but there were two places where the native americans gained the upper hand. one was actually when charles chose to assimilate into colonial culture to fight for the indians. he was still less than the colonists but at that time he comanded significantly more power and respect than other indians. this was because he had lived in colonial culture and knew both sides of the conflict; he gained knowlege so he gained power.

the second time was the ghost dance phase. the indinas gained power by partaking in a ritual that was unfamiliar to the colonists and put them in a position where they had less power. this made them uncomfortable so to regain the power they killed a lot of people.

zmammalton · Joined: 14 Oct 2009 Posts: 31

I was looking at cause and effect.

I feel like the two are pretty similar in fact in the case. The Indians were expected to cede their land to the whites and this cause them to react in various different ways, they attempted to resist, which did not work, thus they were forced to sign various agreements or their land would be taken anyway. I feel like the is one sole effect and that is that the Indians lose their land and that is it. Everything they do, in some form gives land to the colonists. It is a horribly frustrating cycle. I do not really feel as though there is much more to cause and effect except that.

the reading was also an unbelievably awesome story

Kai · Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 13

I was also in the power/how it's divided group...and Celina and Max covered like, everything, so I don't have much to say.
It seems like the way power was broken up, from most power to least power, was important Europeans-->average Europeans-->Native Americans that were buddies with Europeans-->Native American chiefs-->average Native Americans.

The two power related moments that stood out to me the most were where the chief was whipping the two people that took the horses, and where the teacher would not listen to the main character (scary, but I don't remember his name) until he chose a European name.

The first one was such a complicated situation. The chief obviously wanted to show that he did not support conflict with the other tribe, but whipping people he's supposed to lead and take care of is definitely not good. But then again, if he didn't blatantly show the white people that he wasn't supporting them stealing horses from the other tribe, they could have tried to kick them off the land. Messy messy.

Then the one with the teacher was just flat out depressing. The first part it showed, he just wanted to show that he knew what she was teaching, but she wouldn't let him talk, and that wasn't enough to make him pick a new name. But then the final time was him wanting to correct a huge error on the teacher's part about his chief and society, which WAS enough to make him pick a new name. That's a big statement that he would rather pick a European name than let the teacher spread false information about Native Americans. Also I don't know if this was intentional, but the teacher had a sneaky little face during this flashback which made me think that maybe this was a trap to make him pick a new name because she knew he would rather do that than not correct her. If that's true...then she was a manipulative jerk.

wdaube · Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 13

Group 1: Identity

A few scattered ideas I found around identity that I pulled out of the movie:
-Winning feathers in a battle (killing/bravery? how did they get/earn them?) appeared to be honorable and an expression of pride. It seemed to be a big statement to wear one; I say this because of the way one man reacts in the movie to Charles wearing one. He seems a tad confused and distraught, telling Charles he shouldn’t wear it. Regardless of whether he should have had it or not, an element of identity was still brought up.
-The cutting of their long hair was very emotional and it was a step in the direction of being “civilized”. Becoming “civilized” in this example, means a loss of culture for the sake of assimilation.
-When Sitting Bull asks for the culprits of an accused crime (stealing horses from another tribe) to show themselves, two young men hesitantly show themselves. I see this as an expression of identity because the two were brave and mature enough to accept their punishment (even if I disagree with the method of punishment).
-The gaining of a Christian name was another example of a loss of identity. Charles resistance against choosing a name is met with restrictions for certain things, basically cornering him into their (meaning the Americans) will. This was a major plot line in the movie and they made sure we understood what was going on in his head (a tad excessively if you ask me).
-Red Cloud sold out a little too (or so we hear, in the after-effects) and this is met with feelings of animosity and dishonor amongst his tribe.

pgui · Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Posts: 36

How is power divided?
Among who
Power is in the hands of those who control the land. Why or how do they control it?
Violence between Natives colonists and other natives

money makes power => Money that is created by those with power
power in the ability to murder and steal masked by white paper work and formalities
power to those who control reservation

Conformity takes away power among the natives
in the short term conformity provides more money
How to revolt and refute conformity?

IsaacRynowecer · Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Posts: 26

My notes aren't the best but,

Cause and Effect:
• Red cloud signed, due to that his people lose rights
• Red Cloud signed, loses respect from sitting bull
• By defending his people and his chiefs honor, he loses a connection with them
• Due to the turn in of the horse thief, they must lose their land
• Because Red Cloud sold out, his opinion is not valued.
• He has lost all power authority because of the reservation

asilver · Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Posts: 28

My topic was identity

for the Sioux cultural pride seemed a big part of their identity. For instance hunting on the cattle range was looked down on, because they saw it as an imiation of there former life. and they continued to do the ghost dance, even knowing the danger of it. althow the ghost dance was not technically a traditional custom.
Names are a strong signifier of identity. the teacher in the moivie made a huge effort to change the main charectures name. when he does change his name, he looks back on the disision with disgust.
The identity of being a chief in the movie was fairly malluable. the second time the guy with the beard tried to get land from one of the Sioux tribes, nobody listens to the former chief who ceded lands in the beginning of the movie.

athornton · Joined: 18 Nov 2009 Posts: 23

I did cause and effect
just to explain my notes.
-Cause....Effect...more effects

-Little Big Horn....really angered the U.S. army...they want revenge
-Father gets sent to jail...he becomes christian...makes his son christian...puts him in a boarding school...he is convinced they have to live "in the white man's world"
-Charles goes to a boarding school...does really well/gets a good education...goes to Dartmouth..."flourishes" in the white man's world...becomes a doctor...becomes an "important" person
-Chief Redcloud sells out...no one listens to him anymore...no one respects him.
-Ghost dancing...violence...confusion from the U.S.

cbrandweinfryar · Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 12

Hii alright here are my notes, I was in group #1 ideas of identity, and I took pretty vague notes…looking back on them, butt here’s what I got

• “resistance was legendary” → resisted to keep culture and identity
•englishmen threaten them → they won’t leave → their land is their identity
•boy (charles) wants to keep identity + culture, and refuses at first to give up name
•chiefs fighting/ dispute over whether or not to leave lands and go to reservation
-tribe that doesn’t want to leave would rather fight and keep identity, than give up and leave to go to reservation
•sitting bull → identity lost – selling pictures of himself and autographs

GarceDrinkwater · Joined: 12 Feb 2010 Posts: 10

Mine was cause and effect

-Dad changing religion caused son to question beliefs, this brought up the influence of parents on their kids
-Choosing christian name led to huge loss of identity
-Signing anything usually led the Native Americans to pretty shitty outcomes
-When red cloud signed it lost him authority

pretty sure i had more doodles then notes

vanhalensabbath · Joined: 10 Feb 2010 Posts: 11

So Celina and Kai kind of already summed a lot of what happened in my group. But I can write down what I got anyway.

European Power
-Further Advanced Technoloogy led to more victories (i.e. cannons)
-Higher Number of People
-Full scale destruction of Native American Culture (with boarding schools, and violent and non-violent attacks on Native American Land
-Manipulation
-

Native American Power
-Knowing the land
-Unity
-strong adherence to culture even with Europeans trying to destroy it

Thats what I got, though my other group members I'm sure covered whatever holes I left unfilled

cooper · Joined: 12 Feb 2010 Posts: 11

Power

The rules of reservation are harsh but they receive some rations
Native Americans realize they have no power in this new white world
By being white the native Americans gain power
The whites give some of their power away to white native Americans
The new name takes away culture and choice which equals power
The native American culture is more democratic and anarchic which makes it hard to follow one leader. “ every man is a chief”
The white way of leaders is much more tyranich and republic which is much easier to have lots of people together.
Calld him boy
When the chief arrives he has absolutely no power
They take away all his power hehad beore the rservation.
When they hunt they are forced to hunt in a little gate, so they cant go free
Having sitting bull stay had kept some power for the native maericans and when he left it got a lto worse
They say that because he lived white he is white which is not true he is a souix ecaus he looks souix and people will treat him that way
Bu by saying that he is not Indian takes away any identityt he had.

erikthoresen · Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 11

Power

Natives havent any power in this society
doing white things makes them have power ( or gives them power)
the chief comes to the town and has NO power at all, even people from
his tribe are policemen who have more power than him.
sitting bull had power.
lots of people work better when NOT under the native american style of governing
the whites have better control over larger groups which does not coincide with the Natives
way of life

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