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CelinaFernandezAyala · Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Posts: 37

Topic questions (From the assignment sheet):

Does the story of Alex's childhood sound like any you've ever heard? What do you think is true, what is false? Why? That elements of Alex's later life might be getting set-up with the stories of his earlier year?

CelinaFernandezAyala · Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Posts: 37

In terms of the early stories and how they set the stage for his later life, I think they will be key to how he conquers and rules. What really stood out to me was how much Alexander strove to be Achilles, in addition to how Homer impacted Greek culture (which ultimately leaked into Macedonian culture and values.)

Here are 3 quotes that I would like to comment on collectively:
1)"From his childhood there are only stories, of Alex complaining that Philip would leave him nothing glorious to achieve..." pg 59
2) "For Homer's heroes, life was not so much a stage as a competition" p 63
3) "Glory won by achievement was agreed to be the straightest path to heaven, and so Alex's Homeric rivalry lead... to his free worship by contemporaries as a living god." p 65

What interesting about the first quote is that it focuses on glory and competition. Then, in the second and third quote, we see what they mean and how important they are for an individual to achieve/experience. The feelings that Alexander is going through as an young man are being reinforced through the literature that he's reading.
This will have definite impact in his older years. When his father dies and he takes over, based on these three quotes, he'll probably not just feel the need to live up to him, but excel far beyond his father's achievements. He'll not only have to compete with his father, but with the governments of the places he conquers as well. Based on the reading, it seems Alexander wouldn't ever be satisfied- he'd constantly be in need of some form of competition. But achievements wouldn't be enough- the ultimate reward would be glory, granting him a form of immortality by being worshipped as a god. For Alexander, there might not ever be a point where he's done it all, because the values and literature if his time say there's always something more to be done, and more glory to be earned.[/i]

semmet · Joined: 05 Jan 2010 Posts: 41

Maybe it's because I just took Harry and we read Portnoy's Complaint in that, but what I seemed to focus on most while I was reading were the sections about Alexander's parents. On page 56 Fox says "Philip had been away on too any campaigns to devote much time in person to his son and it is not always fanciful to explain the homosexuality of Greek young men as a son's need to replace an absent father with an older lover." I just thought this was a really interesting contrast to some of the general American viewpoints today. Homosexuality can be seen as a sign of weakness, or femininity, yet then, in the ultimate warrior culture it was used as a way to replace the hole left in one's life by their absent father. Many of the times the father was off fighting in a war, or maybe had even been killed. The absence of the father was from the most 'manly' way of dying... i just thought the contrast was cool.

I was kind of disappointed when his childhood didn't really remind me of any other stories I've heard... after reading the questions beforehand I was super-psyched to make connections, but none came to mind. Are there obvious ones I'm missing, or was this really more of a curiosity question?

EmmaEWard · Joined: 11 May 2010 Posts: 5

Steph - I also was not reminded of a specific story. So, either we both missed something really obvious, or it was a general curiosity question Smile

I've noticed that so far people (i.e. just the two of you) are focusing on the later part of the reading, whereas for me I found the beginning part something that I focused on more. (pages 43-52 sort of thing.) I was surprisingly interested in what an effect the Greek culture Alexander was exposed to had on him. For basically the first 10 pages of the chapter, Greek art, theatre, music, design, engineers, even medicine were mentioned frequently. Alexander's upbringing was a lot more culturally diverse than I initially expected. (For example when it speaks about his variety of friends on page 50, or how Alexander "could quote Euripides's plays by heart"). I think that this perhaps - perhaps - had an effect on efficient a conquerer/commander he was later in life.

The one part of the story that did remind me of another story was the part with Bucephalas on page 48. It also "foreshadows" Alexander's fate of being greater than his undeniably great father (as Rachel said in class, were it not for Alexander, we would study Philip the Great). Philip the II cannot "tame" Bucephalas, but Alexander uses his brain and his courage to calm the horse, and then "leap astride" to "shouts of applause from the courtiers and tears of joy from Philip" (pg 4 Cool

. This just seems like the quintessential Hero Archetype.

jward · Joined: 11 May 2010 Posts: 3

While you guys seemed to focus on Philip's affect on Alexander's progression, i noticed that possibly Olympias as a mother had a much more direct affect on Alexander as a person and as a leader. "His mother's wild mysticism was also combined with a quarrelsome temper and a reputation...for atrocity...she showed herself capable as any other Macedonian of killing family rivals who threatened her" (p. 45) This could be a reason for Alexander's ruthlessness and drive to conquer as much as he did. Although his mother was not present in the last 11 years of his life, she did pick who educated him and was completely devoted to his sucsess. In the text it was revealed that her influence can only be guessed at, however so was the influence of Philip, who wasn't very present in his life when Alexander was a boy.

Chace · Joined: 19 Oct 2009 Posts: 7

While i think it is interesting how the posts thus far have focused on the influence of Alexander's mother and father on his psychology, i think, and indeed some posts support this, that in the end they were either absent of terrible terrible parents. Philip was a full time king and part time general who was away more often than not, and Olympias was a batshit mystic who at her most coherent was just machiavellian. maybe these are exaggerations, but from the readings it seems apparent that in thier attitudes and actions towards young Alexander they are more interested in grooming a ruler then raising a son.

So if Alexanders parents were away, where did find his model for life, his everyday example of what he should aspire to become? the only person who would have had daily time with him (besides his peers) was his tutor. therefore, it would be from this venue that alexander shaped his ideal self. So, we speculate, did he then shape himself after his tutors, emulating aristotle? NO, we answer, or if he did, really badly. and alexander is not one to do things badly. so then if it is not in the purveyor of education that he finds a masculine identity, it must be in the content that he found it. Really, and the book makes this clear, there is only one true epic: the Iliad.

so alexander find in the Iliad, (and more specifically in achilles, the most heroic of them all) a way of life, something concrete to aspire to.

this is my theory, (the part about alexander wanting to be achilles is in the book, i didnt make that up), that the lack of parenting led alexander to look for direction in his tutor, and the lack of manliness there led him to take the story of the fall of troy as his own.

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