The United States' initial dependence on a system of bondage seems to me to be telling. How far have we really gotten from this system of socioeconomic hierarchy, which depends entirely on a imbalance of power? And is evening out this hierarchy really in our national interests? Ever since this country was established to be a democracy in the modern sense, after the time we're reading about, we've been fixated on equality. It's an interesting paradox that the system of capitalism we have paired with democracy guarantees that there will always be economic inequality.
Because there is an (arguably necessary) gap in earnings between the modern American classes (classes which seem to be greatly less well-defined than in the past), this creates a wide spectrum of labor cultures. Some people work physically demanding jobs and get paid well (professional sports is an extreme example), some work mindless jobs and get paid very little, but for the most part there is a correlation between the intellectual intensity of jobs and the amount of money the workers make. I've heard it argued that in capitalist society, the worker is paid on the basis of how helpful his work is to society at large, but the fact that the people who keep our cities clean and running are mostly paid minimum wage seems to disprove that (unless we think about it just like the "figureheads in history" argument we talked about today in class -- maybe the people who individually contribute the most are paid the most?). Anyway, this sets up a system where the poorer people (the vast majority) have to work the generally more physically demanding, less valued jobs and the upper class can work without physically breaking a sweat and be respectable. This is definitely the same general idea that the colonists had -- the system is set up to keep the poor working the hard, low-paid jobs, while those with access to good education (all of us) get to, in theory, do something we want for a living.
...
Question for discussion (sort of rhetorical): When society is in a position where upwards of 90% of people have a bad-to-terrible quality of life, how does it sustain itself? What stops this vast majority from doing something about circumstances?
im honestly not quite sure how to follow up after that. its kind of like when you're in assembly and some one in front of you says most of what you want to say only a hundred times more eloquently.
This is a follow up to the first person's response; I agree with you on the fact that people higher up have jobs that are more respectable yet less straining physically. Then for the majority of lower class people they work jobs that are less respectable but extremely physically demanding. The ideas behind this ‘system’ are structured in a similar way to the colonists. But think about this for a minute; is America still on the same class ranking system by possibility? Or do we make it that way? For me, the answer is crystal clear; the bar was set in colonial times and we have followed that standard ever since. People do not get a fair shot at breaking out of their class and rising above. For instance the education system is slightly corrupt; yes we are all required to go to school for a certain amount of time, but what about college? If you look at the people lowest down in which families don’t have the ability to academically support their children through high school, then in some cases they won’t be able to go to the next level, from lack of support and lack of money. Thus not going to college and ending up working a dead end, physically demanding and cheap paying job.
There are small change from generation to generation, because the children of those higher up have the benefit of the doubt of staying higher up than those who come from poorer families. I pose two questions, how would it be possible to break this pattern? And if mass amounts of people have ever broken out of this pattern in history, when and where did this happen?
As I was reading chapter 1, I kept pondering about the definition of labor and its connection to U.S. history. It made me thought about black, white, and other races as well as the social status of women vs. men and adults vs. children. Also, it was interesting to look at how the idea of having power, money, and freedom played big roles in people’s lives.
Anyways, now I’m answering Rachel’s question. I am not sure if I’m on a right track or I’m going too much off topic, but I thought one of the example can be from the ideologies of Booker T. Washington and W. E. B. DuBois. In case some people do not know about it, I will quickly summarize how their disagreements helped the society to progress in the late 19-20th century. While, Booker T. Washington urged blacks to accept discrimination and concentrate on elevation themselves through hard work, W.E.B. encouraged political actions and education for blacks. One of W.E.B.’s ideas was having “Talented Tenth” which was giving social and political equality to black people (but only those who were capable of making into top 10percent) for education. I’m pretty sure there are many other events when people broke the pattern in history, but this is the only thing I can thought of right now.
So my question is this. What were other events in history when people were able to break this pattern?
Firstly, I would like to point out that throughout my time as a student, from elementary school at a public charter school to a private middle school, I have never been taught anything about the bondage and slavery, too the extent in which this book covers it, in colonies like Jamestown and also the Northeast like Providence. Now I don't believe I am alone in that, but anyway, I bring this up because I think it tells us a lot about how nearly "90% of colonial society were poor and politically disenfranchised" and how nothing has changed to this day as the top 10% in the U.S. own 71% of the nations wealth and the bottom 40% own less than 1% of the nations wealth. (ask me for the cite and I'll give it to you) Now how does the regimented education we receive as well as many other daily influences that we overlook tie together with this great disparity in wealth and quality of life. Well I believe the elite class controls the ideas of the U.S. population through schools, religion, war and other means. For example, the "American Dream" idea well thats the biggest lie I ever heard yet people want to believe it and they will not only work really hard for it but they will also under the pretext that they actually can achieve this "American Dream" they often (and by they I mean the masses the labor class the proletariat) will not want to tax or someway make the system more equal b/c they hold out the false hope that they can be that elite individual like Carnegie or Rockefeller. But nearly all the elite come from privilege not from working harder than others yet the elite do not want the labor class to know this b/c that could tarnish the system. So this is one example of how by controlling the ideas of the people the elite can carry out without ever completely debilitating dissent. Wow thats a long ass tangent but I'm trying to get at the root of how this system can keep on happening where there is always a loser. I think the model we must follow today is the one of the Socialist Democracies of Scandinavia...where disparity in wealth is little and quality of life for most high. Anyways to attempt to answer the question have there been successful movements in the past that have sort of overcome this system, well sorta. There has certainly been a lot of progress, for example I think it is clear that Europe has progressed from the Feudalist Society it was during much of the Medieval Ages to a society that at least values human beings. Also, another great example is the French Revolution...we can talk about this in class. My question is why do you believe that this system that we read about in the book and we see today, where on one side we have a few people who have a lot often as a result of the hard work of the masses and on the other side we have a lot of people living in destitution, is still the prevailing system in our society today?
The question of whether America's "system" has strayed from its original ideals is an interesting one.
The US is seen as a country of opportunity. It still is a place where countless workers immigrate in search for a better life outside of their class. However, I believe that the original ideals set during the colonial regime still is deeply rooted into the system. Is anyone paid what they deserve? Like said before the upper classes who do a lot less stenuous physical labor get a pay which overwhelms the lower classes'. As said in a post before, the upper classes might seem to be getting paid without breaking a sweat, but I think that this arguably comes down to the question, which is more strenuous? physical or mental (stress building through all the "responsibilities") work? It is still a sad realization that the people who keep our city running ,through its basic needs (electricity, clean facilities), still get a minimum wage compared to the highly respectable jobs.
The question of what stops the vast majority from doing something when 90% of people have a terrible quality of life comes down back to education. When the majority of people are stuck in a bad quality of life, they usually don't have the leisure time to think about politics but rather focus in on a way to get food to survive. Without its proper education the majority of people wouldn't know first, how to get organized, and second, what to do afterward.
My questions is "Why is it that numerous attempts of any union ends up in failure? Does this imply the imbalance in power in the US?"
Joined: 18 Nov 2009 Posts: 16 Location: In your closet
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 11:17 am Post subject:
I think that America still runs on, somewhat, conquest and bondage. I'm with Alex when he said that as I was brought up and taught in schools, I was never taught about slavery to this proportion.
The US is seen as a country of opportunity. Says who? Says the rich who are greedy and want the money that these fresh immigrants bring? And this is why there is such a divide among the rich and poor. Basically, the rich fuck over the poor to make them richer.
And in reply to June's post, yes, most illegal immigrants today in the US do live a tax free life(Correction, most illegal immigrants do pay taxes). But they live in fear. They live in fear of being deported, have everything they worked for thrown out. The most important point I would like to bring up is that they are doing the jobs that no one else wants to do. This doesn't just apply to the US!! The computers we "recycle" get sent to India, where they have kids as young as 6 look through the scrap to find gold, and breathing in the toxic gas that is released when computer parts are burnt.
I don't think theres a way to break free from this pattern. There will be greedy people. There will be people who are selfish. And due to this greed and selfishness, they have brought themselves to the top of the chain and they control everything. Why hasn't more stricter laws on protecting the environment been enacted by the US? It will cost to much to implement it. Of course that is way more important than the world exploding (a little exaggeration here). _________________ WARNING: I am not responsible for what i type above because apparently, my cats learned how to type
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